don't get me wrong, i love that man but it's just that John seemed to do everything for himself..i mean, he loved his boys and tried to do what was right for them and helped rid the world of evil but it was always for his own vengeance..he drilled into Dean his unhealthy obsession, which took away anything good Dean might have in his life..if Dean wasn't following orders or protecting Sammy against the world he felt like he was worthless..and yes, John made the ultimate sacrifice for Dean but in the end i don't think that makes him righteous..and another thing, Cas said that as soon as the angels realized what Lilith was up to they laid siege to hell, so it took them maybe 3 or 4 months to get Dean out..so if John was also meant to be the seal-breaker why couldn't they have gotten him out sooner?

mm very good points hun! you are such a thinker! lol I totally don't think about this stuff until someone really brings it up!

i agree with a lot of what lucysmileyface said

this is how i see it...believe me i love john...but he was consumed by revenge...while dean thought that keeping his family alive and together was more important than getting revenge.....dean has been selfless his whole life and even though the arguement can me madde that dean made the deal out of selfishness...think back to his conversation with bobby after he made his deal.....what he said didn't seem selfish to me...true a portion of that had to be selfishness but not all of it.

Great comments, Lucy!

But I really wish we had seen more of John to understand him better. He started off wanting vengeance, but the more evil he encountered, perhaps the more he realized that people had to be saved from these things. If he was totally about vengeance, why would he have bothered? He could have chosen to focus entirely on tracking YED and said to hell with everything else, but he didn't. Seeing that Sam and Dean had such opposing views of their father, who's to say that either of them knew exactly what he was about?

I firmly believe that John was never intended to be the seal-breaker and Alastair was lying through his teeth. As I pointed out in other picks, John's deal was with Azazel, and not brokered through a crossroads demon; there was no contract to be held, and he likely had nothing at all to do with Lilith. We really don't know why Azazel wanted John, but the angels knew why Lilith wanted Dean: to torture him into breaking the first seal. I don't think John was tortured at all; if the apocalypse was at stake, the angels would have fought their way through Hell to save him, and they wouldn't have waited 100 years to do it, ;);)