About that Game of Thrones “spoiler” going around…. 

False rumors on the internet are nothing new, especially in the

fandom. In the early days of the show, before filming even began, there were IMDb shenanigans when a creative fan added Holly Marie Combs’s name to the cast listings as playing the part of Catelyn Stark. Obviously that was untrue, and it demonstrated just how easy it is for anyone with a login to update the movie and television database.

Part of IMDb’s charm is that anyone can update it, but unfortunately it can lead to trolling and misinformation and that is the case this week when the cast listing for a season five episode was updated.

Fortunately, the Huffington Post was able to get in touch with Michelle Fairley’s representation and they were able to confirm that rumors of Fairley returning to play Catelyn or Stoneheart were not true.

“There hasn’t been any discussion about her returning to the show after Season 3,” Fairley’s rep told

Sorry, folks, there’s no Lady Stoneheart in the works currently- just someone getting creative with IMDb once again. This actually happened last year, but that’s slipped people’s memories, and it didn’t make as big a ruckus last year. I believe the entry last year was removed before many people noticed.

The season five Fairley episode listing on the database is in the process of being removed.

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Agh! There goes my theory about Cat & Robb appearing. Time to rethink a new theory…

Wow – this rumor really picked up a lot of steam. Glad that we can move away from it…for awhile, anyway.

My sources say they are holding the character back until season 8.

I was watching a YouTube video of a fan breaking down the season 5 trailer and in it he brought up an interesting theory.

He thinks D&D are merging the LS role into Dark Sansa. He states that was the reason for Littlefinger telling her to take vengeance. Pushing her to become LS.

By now people should just accept that the character has been cut and move on with their lives.

this tweet from y’all (or is it just Sue who does the twitter?) imply that you have a scoop about who “Gordy” (Tristan McConnell’s character) is in ep. 510 or was it just referring to this here article?

There was so much hype. A magazine said that the Brotherhood Without Banners would be returning, the last episode had some promising Stoneheart makeup/prosthetics on the run for the Emmy’s nom and it had an extented running time. I actually believed it.

I don’t want to be disappointed again. I guess one of the best and most promising parts of the books just isn’t good enough to ask Michele Fairley to come back as a guest star. I guess it just isn’t good enough for Game of Thrones.

Yeah I know who Gordy is, basically. Minor character. I’m throwing together a post for the next day or so with all the minor casting stuff lately and a couple tidbits of things I’ve heard.

Multiple people handle the Twitter, by the way. I do tend to do it a lot.

Anyone who believes in IMDB-casting rumours should have their internetcards revoked, bloody amateurs.

The Dark Sansa theory is probably a good theory. Its the kind of move that reeks of a “television decision” as opposed to storytelling. You keep Baelish around causing trouble, but more importantly the young rising Sophie Turner can become a stronger “player”. Turner getting the role of Jean Gray shows that she is obviously turning heads in more ways than one.

You could tell pretty easily that it was fake. Michelle Fairly as Hooded Woman…doesn’t matter how vague the name of the role is, if Michelle Fairly was actually, officially going to be in S5, playing “Hooded Woman” wouldn’t stop that from becoming huge news.

There were casting calls for both those characters, so… no, they ain’t cut. He was asking specifically about news about the castings.

Then what is Brienne doing back in the Riverlands I wonder? It still isn’t a definite no… I mean what can she say? I guess I can still hope but I’m probably going to end up getting depressed after episode 10 again.

There were casting calls for both those characters, so… no, they ain’t cut. He was asking specifically about news about the castings.

Oh, I stand corrected then. Thanks for clarifying. I’m guessing Varamyr will be quite different from the book character, though.

I hope this theory, while interesting to consider, doesn’t come to pass.

While I love the character, this is a major fast track for a character who, for four seasons, didn’t display a malicious or vengeful bone in her body. Littlefinger is a great manipulator, perhaps one of the best in the series, but Sansa’s admission to the Vale Lords was a wink to the viewer that she is onto LF’s game. If she does his bidding, how is this in anyway progress for her to become an independent player in her own right, and not just a pawn again? I get the writer’s are eager to have Sansa play a more pro-active role and will take her arc in a different direction then the books but to what end? Now I am really worried for the character and this “controversial” scene we have heard so much about. Wondering now if it will be the death of Sweetrobin at her own hand while being directed by LF or, if she is to take on Stoneheart’s role, she does this all on her own.

Certainly, I imagine he’ll be quite different. Well… his circumstances, anyway —either that or we will get to see

of him. But I think we can expect him to be a wildling leader and impressive skinchanger.

I’m pretty sure the “controversial scene” is an early Sansa chapter from TWOW, as quoted by Elio Garcia. Sophie Turner did say something in the script shocked her, if I recall correctly, but the “controversial” comment was about the books, not the show.

Also, I don’t think the writers will take away Sansa’s agency now that she’s gotten it at last. She got one over Littlefinger when she revealed herself to the Lords of the Vale —she saved his life yet secured herself a safer position, less reliant on Baelish… which is something that hasn’t even happened in the books —not yet, anyway. So, while I think the emotional manipulation by Littlefinger will continue (it’s what he does), it will go both ways now.

People seriously fell for this? Really? I was under the assumption all this “steam” and “ruckus” was mainly trolls trolling trolls.

And if you really DID believe it.. shame on you. Seriously. IMDB is about as reliable as anybody else on here with their wild theories.

I’m more curious with the fact that they haven’t explained where the hell Blackfish and Edmure are! I doubt it’s resolved this season.

If lsh was in but simply pushed to this or next season would anything be different? Theyd still keep it under wraps and deny it at every turn. I mean look at how surprising it will be now if it happens compared to if it happened last season. Twitter will explode twice instead of once lol. I still think there is hope, I really dont want to see Sansa Stoneheart that sounds pretty bad. What if LF is saying that after we hear about someone marrying arya or jon at the wall? Sansa is not at that point yet it would be too out of character for her to fill LSH’s shoes. If she is cut she better be completely cut I will stop watching if they do Talisa stoneheart or something.

I don’t want Lady Stoneheart she’s boring. Bring back Robb Stark with his head mounted on Greywinds body. Hey can run around the Riverlands with a giant dire wolf body mauling the shit out of Freys and their kids. Make it happen HBO

So without Stoneheart, does the Brotherhood just fall into a black hole? Or will we see them again with a still alive Beric?

And what exactly are they going to have Brienne do this season, other than verbally spar with Podrick?

“As of Now” ?? Weird to word it like that

From your fingertips to the writing Gods ears, Luka! I question D&D a lot, though I love the show, simply because they seemed to drag Sansa out. I get that she was a prisoner and still is, in someways, but I was really hopeful for the Ser Dontos plot to be included so we could see the decisive Sansa take shape. It was one of the few times in the books I felt that she could effectively assert herself. If the writer’s are morphing her into a LS-hybrid, does she truly have agency if its at the direction of Littlefinger? She may be onto him, his game plan, but I am a wee worried that the gruesome twosome (which I know Sophie jokingly called them) will put her on par with LF but make Sansa unrecognizable. Though…I guess it’s par for the course, since Arya is becoming “no one” and the parallels between the Stark girls would become a bit more crystal clear.

As for the scene, Sophie mentioned a scene that was hard to film for her and everyone on set. That is why I wondered if maybe the controversial scene from the books could be coming in this season, since they are fast tracking a lot of her plot.

It’s more fun to speculate why this character wasn’t included than how this character could be included (or amalgamated). I just hope someone starts killing Freys soon.

Indeed, that is the question that certain upset fans never answer: what would B&W have done with her in Season 5? The plots needed to be merged and streamlined as it is: embellishing heavily on one would have been a poor use of time.

The decisive Sansa did not take place there, really: in the books, Dontos talks her out of some alternative plans. (If you recall, poor Sansa is shocked to learn from Dontos that the only reason anyone is interested in her is because they expect her to become the heir of Winterfell.)

I would argue the opposite: B&W actually have gotten to the punch faster than the books. Although Sansa left the silly cowardly girl in the Eyrie and came down the brave and not-completely-clueless Alayne, the Maleficent Stark that many readers anticipated (not me, I am embarrassed to admit) from that will not be descending until Winter: and who knows when that will be! However, her next decisive scene in the books will be her first one.

Stoneheart at first seemed too silly to me in the books and one resurrection too far. But I got on board when she turned the BwB from quasi-Robin Hood lot to shell shocked executioners. It said a lot about the effects of war, and in the books, I actually prefer the character as silent angel of death.

Sansa taking her place could work but I would like a feasible way for her to finance the BwB, I guess. Or some way for the show to return to them and show their change to just hanging everyone with the last of name of Frey. It really is great how Beric gives his last breath to SH, and all you need is an Arya wolf-dream to tell it, regardless of when.

With the setup in previous seasons, like the episode titled Mhysa and music cues that seemed right for it, along with them not coming out and saying that they won’t use her, I get the feeling they shot it for the end of Season 4 and zombie Catelyn looked goofy.

LSH if brought in, will be epic. The only fate epic enough for the Freys.

Most of the audience probably has not worried about either Edmure or Blackfish, as neither are major characters. For those that di remeber, they have no reason to think that Edmure has left any dungeons. Blackfish is presumably on the lam somewhere.

“There hasn’t been any discussion about her returning to the show after Season 3”

There hasn’t been any discussion about it, because it’s obviously happening!

Because ‘as of now’ it hasn’t happened yet!

For the record: I don’t think it’s gonna happen. But the wording is still kinda ambiguous :p

Manderly > Stoneheart. Although it looks like neither will be in the show. The lack of Frey suffering needs to end in some way on the show.

In the book Manderly is awesome, true, but in the show it’s a brand new secondary character taking revenge on another secondary character. Not the same epicness as the return of LSH.

The decisive Sansa did not take place there, really: in the books, Dontos talks her out of some alternative plans.(If you recall, poor Sansa is shocked to learn from Dontos that the only reason anyone is interested in her is because they expect her to become the heir of Winterfell.)

I always thought Sansa felt Dontos was her “Knight” and actually took risks to meet with him, something she would’ve never done pre-Blackwater. With her first way out gone (The Hound, which I understood in context because of his drunken behavior, her fear AND her belief Stannis would win), I felt that the fantasy she held onto of being rescued presented itself and she truly believed Dontos wanted to help her. The realization that her “claim” is her only value, destroyed what was left of that naivety. Well a good chunk of it because we, the reader/watchers, know Littlefinger really fucks with her head. While Dontos was the only choice, it was still her’s to make by meeting with him, so that is what I meant by decisive actions. And with 4 seasons, I guess what I really meant was I hoped to see that build up instead of just new hair/new dress/new attitude. Either way, I am interested to see where this goes because it really is new territory if the writers are eliminating the Alayne element (the teacher/student) and going full force into vengeance mode.

Enjoy your disappointment guys, you still haven’t learned from last year’s finale……

They obviously could have been lieing….don’t you think it’s something that they’d want to keep COMPLETELY under wraps to shock the shit out of you? Why would you expect the reps to say anything other than “she is not currently involved?” The wording means that as of right now, she’s not involved but that doesn’t mean she could be involved later. Just sayin, you guys calling to ask a rep wouldn’t be confirmation one way or another. D&D in the past have been completely hush hush about it, refusing to talk about it one way or another. The actress would be sworn to secrecy as well. We won’t find out until the season is shown.

Thanks for posting this, Sue, even if some folks still don’t want to believe it. I’m really looking forward to the article on the minor castings you mentioned.

Agree. The “why not” is much more fun to think about.

And, as others have pointed out, what are Brienne and Pod doing this season?

Truth. I hate that there has been no set up for the Northern Revenge as of yet and I really do feel it’s going to fall on Sansa at this point. Just the fact that I may never hear this line uttered “In return, we swore that we should always be their men.

men!” makes me want to tear my face off.

If there are only 7 seasons, season 6 can’t expand, it has to contract. I just can’t see them bringing in a whole host of Ironborn and Northerners 20 episodes before the end. These damn Dornish better end up being really important. Would trade them all for Wyman, Wylla, Maege and Alysane.

I have to admit, I still hold on to a glimmer of hope that we’ll see LSH this season. It’s nothing like the absolute certainty I had at the end of S4. That crushing feeling when Arya was on the boat and the closing music was getting louder and louder is not something I wish to repeat. :*( GoT = serious business.

Another thing is its michelle fairley she’s so perfect for lsh and I know she would be down to do it from interviews u can tell she’s really open to anything. I always just picture that scream from the red wedding and try to imagine that as a character its scary and awesome.

On a different topic who thinks the controversial sansa scene could be her seducing LF? Everything she learned from cersei about using her womanhood as a weapon would come full circle in a pretty controversial way.

The most convincing hint towards Stoneheart is something that is never mentioned at all: D&D are on record as saying they picked Michelle Fairley after watching her as Lady Macbeth on the stage, and seeing the rage, the horror and the sheer power of her performance in it. In other words, they seemed to be looking for a Stoneheart far more than a Catelyn.

I’ve been an IMDb user for 10 years now, and I’ve seen the best and the worst about that site!

Oftentimes it can be a wonderful place to discuss and review movies and tv shows…but other times it can be a cesspool of ignorance and stupidity…as it was in this case…

Well what can you do…there will always be some shit stained twats around…and what do you do with shit stains…you whippe them off!

Not including her leaves so many questions – why introduce the BWB and Beric – was it just for

. Why have Arya add Beric and Thoros to her list? That was truly the one thing last season that gave me hope that LSH was coming. It seemed they wanted to remind the viewers about these tertiary characters. IMO, if they don’t introduce her in S5, it’s a done deal. I feel like viewers will barely remember her by Season 6, same with Gendry. In my heart I feel like it was going to happen and then got abandoned for one reason or another. I’d love to be proven wrong though.

There’s a scene where brienne goes to a blacksmith to change her sword or something in the Riverlands this season which could be a chance to see gendry again.

The lack of Frey suffering needs to end in some way on the show.

Laura: Truth. I hate that there has been no set up for the Northern Revenge as of yet and I really do feel it’s going to fall on Sansa at this point. Just the fact that I may never hear this line uttered “In return, we swore that we should always be their men.

men!” makes me want to tear my face off.

I, too, hate that there has been no Northern Revenge and no Frey suffering. Don’t care about LSH one way or another. I need to see elements of twisted revenge. If it is Sansa that has to take on this role…well, that’s not what I imagined for her but I will go with it.

I still hold out a slim measure of hope that Manderly and Wylla appear.

Could be the bald Wildling with the axe in the trailer, I had been thinking it might be the Weeper but perhaps it’s Varymyr

Bolton army Chess pieces at 1:27-8+ casting for Baratheon General for 510 has me excited about the North and a certain battle to at least begin (and probably carry over into early S6)

It’s similar as to why they have Stannis call out “Balon Greyjoy” with the leeches and having Illyrio talking to Varys + Blackfish escaping the Red Wedding, they probably made the strategic decision to cut LS and fAegon later, eg no point in having Illyrio if Varys is just going to straightforward send Tyrion to Dany

AND BwB could have done without Thoros and Beric resurrection if they were always planning to do without LS, could have just had Beric and a ragged bunch of Kings men under Robert turned Robin Hood peasant outlaws

They could have just had Edmure and no Blackfish.

I would rather Blackfish fill the LS role than Sansa, to turn Sansa into LS means changing her role

Besides I don’t like the idea that turning her into a “player” requires her to go to the “dark side”. This is a brutal world but she can still be positive and turn into an anti-LS and anti-HS character who have both become extremist, eg taking after Margaery rather than Littlefinger she can inspire a following and develop a form of political power by uplifting a ravaged people which is what the initial appeal of the BwB was

There’s northern “revenge” but I reckon the way this is being set up is not a proportionate revenge that makes people feel good but it will be so OTT is will make people sick

Which I like literary wise as it rips out any kind of romantic sense out of the war’s and taps into the fact that war crimes don’t just happen and extremist groups and army units don’t just appear out of thin air, they happen as a cycle tit for tat spiralling out of control and hatred building until there is no restraint.

That’s why I enjoy the High Sparrow arc and maybe Littlefinger (a Burgeoise meritocracy revolutionary IMO)

Eg the Freys “just” killed soldiers but crucially they threw all the customs that acted as restraint mechanisms out the window, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Freys get Rains of Castamered with women and children and brought brutally into the fray (or should that be “frey”…) and the all-out destruction of the Riverlands arc from the booming harvests or AGoT into a Fallout 3 style death land by WoW will be complete.

I reckon “Light Sansa” can play a role in raising it from ruins which is why I don’t like the idea of “Dark Sansa”

Kells: I always thought Sansa felt Dontos was her “Knight” and actually took risks to meet with him, something she would’ve never done pre-Blackwater.

If I recall, then Sansa didn’t take huge risks: she met Dontos at the Godswood, after it became pretty clear that people were leaving her alone there. Remember, Littlefinger was behind this: and given Sansa’s track record, he probably was not going to risk her having to be too daring or innovative.

Ghost’s Lunch: they probably made the strategic decision to cut LS and YG later,

Well, not necessarily. One thing that people are forgetting is that YG’s arrival on Westeros is a huge shock for everyone in Westeros. The Arianne chapter from Winds deals explicitly with this, and the Theon chapter brushes on things that will be hugely affected by it. One of the huge issues on the next story is going to be: is he who he says? And is he the member of his family with whom we should side?

However, we the readers are less surprised: simply because Tyrion chanced to meet YG on the road.

To this end, B&W they want the audience to feel the shock and surprise that the main characters (and supporting & incidental characters save for Varys) feels, and if they want the audience to wonder (as the Westerosi will): “is YG who he says?” then it is better to have YG’s return be somewhat out-of-the-blue at the onset of Season 6 (or the very end of Season 5).

She’ll appear when she’s needed in the tv!story (if ever).

Re: the “quoted” WoW chapter Where might someone find this quotation? I no longer frequent his site.

I am not a fan of the vengeful Sansa theory. But I agree that there needs to be some Northern vengeance. Give me some Manderly!

Eurio: On a different topic who thinks the controversial sansa scene could be her seducing LF? Everything she learned from cersei about using her womanhood as a weapon would come full circle in a pretty controversial way.

That hypothesis is both widely held and widely hated. The idea has been around for a while: I remember after Storm came out that people began to suggest that at this point, Cersei was going to be Sansa’s role model. The thought was that Sansa had finally learned that her values were based on falsehoods and that the people who win are people like the Lannisters and Littlefinger. However, there has always been a crowd that sees Sansa as an icon of moral purity, and they seemed to be holding out hope that eventually, good deeds would go rewarded rather than punished, and that Sansa would somehow triumph this way.

That written, I don’t think that Sansa need seduce LF: usually “seduction” requires a little winning over, and LF would make a Chippendale Dancer look like an amateur given half the chance!

John M W: And what exactly are they going to have Brienne do this season, other than verbally spar with Podrick?

I haven’t read any of the books, so I don’t know where the end of the published books leave Brienne. But I wonder: is there a possibility that she will die in the show this season? Her death, if it happens, would have a huge impact, because Brienne is very well-liked amongst viewers, as a rather noble Knight. I hope not, though a part of me thinks it could happen.

If there’s going to be some sort of final reckoning with the Freys (which there needs to be for closure) it’s going to be done in some way to elicit discomfort and maybe sympathy like all the other villains demises. Not sure how but they may just get a tear for old Walder before the end!

It’s pretty crazy to me that the “Sansa will probably join the BwB start hanging Frey’s” notion has had this kind of legs based solely on one (out of context) line from the trailer.

I’m all for speculating on changes and things that are going off the book-path but you need to come up with something more than a single line about revenge spoken in a trailer. That’s the flimsiest of flimsy pieces of evidence.

I’m not a believer in the theory that perhaps Sansa’s arc this year will take her into the Northern storyline with her and LF conspiring to have her wed to Ramsay in order to secure Winterfell but I can at least not snort derisively at it because LF using Sansa to secure Winterfell is exactly the same goal he has in the books so you could make the argument that the show is just getting us there a little more efficiently. Not likely but I’ll at least humor it until I see more evidence.

How exactly do you construct a scenario where LF decides that his best course of action after sheltering Sansa and planning to use her and her name to consolidate more power is to convince her to join up with an outlaw group and anonymously start hanging Frey’s?

Wimsey: That hypothesis is both widely held and widely hated.The idea has been around for a while: I remember after Storm came out that people began to suggest that at this point, Cersei was going to be Sansa’s role model.The thought was that Sansa had finally learned that her values were based on falsehoods and that the people who win are people like the Lannisters and Littlefinger.However, there has always been a crowd that sees Sansa as an icon of moral purity, and they seemed to be holding out hope that eventually, good deeds would go rewarded rather than punished, and that Sansa would somehow triumph this way.

That written, I don’t think that Sansa need seduce LF: usually “seduction” requires a little winning over, and LF would make a Chippendale Dancer look like an amateur given half the chance!

I’m more inclined to believe that the quick shot we see in the trailer of Sansa alone in a castle room with candles lit around while she’s naked in a bathtub and looking extremely anxious is leading to the controversial scene in question. And I don’t think it’s with LF.

Just beat telltale’s episode 2 of game of thrones. Really love

Truth. I hate that there has been no set up for the Northern Revenge as of yet and I really do feel it’s going to fall on Sansa at this point. Just the fact that I may never hear this line uttered “In return, we swore that we should always be their men. Stark men!” makes me want to tear my face off.

Amen! I get the constraints of television, but one of the great themes of ASOIAF is that actions have consequences. Manderley has a reason for what he does. For example, there’s been no mention at all in the show (that I can recall) of the packs of wolves roaming the countryside (presumably led by Nymeria). All you need is some dialogue here and there, no wolf footage needed. There’s so much that can be fit into the limitations of television that can help bring to life the atmosphere of the books, especially the sense that even though the fighting is finished, the war is far from over.

How exactly do you construct a scenario where LF decides that his best course of action after sheltering Sansa and planning to use her and her name to consolidate more power is to convince her to join up with an outlaw group and anonymously start hanging Frey’s?

I think the idea is not that Sansa starts hanging out with Thoros, but that she gains control over a section of Arryn men like those seen on horseback in the trailer, and sends them hither and thither to murder Freys, and at the end of this they bring her Brienne and Podrick and she does the routine from the books, a la Stoneheart.

How you described the Sansa-in-Winterfell idea made it sound plausible for the first time to me, it does fulfill narrative needs, frees D&D from paying another actor, and ties two plots together. But only if Sansa’s TWOW material is comparatively bland to them.

But yeah, Sansa probably will not become Ellen Ripley. However, if there is no Stoneheart than someone would need to fulfill her role. I get the feeling that Stoneheart will appear when Balon dies, in due time.

I agree with everyone stating that they would like to see some sort of vengeance on the Freys for their awful part in the Red Wedding and that Sansa will take parts of LSH character to seek revenge. But, I also would like to see the same vengeance carried out in the North. My question is, who will take on that role? Sadly, I don’t think Manderly will make it to the show. However, some parts of his character should. We need to see how some of the North is not okay with what happened to the Starks. Will Sansa also take on this role?

I have a completely crackpot idea that Sansa might end up going back towards Winterfell with the BWB. If I’m not mistaken, wouldn’t she recognize Thoros and him her? If she joins up with them and starts heading up north, that’s also bringing Mel closer to Thoros again. I agree with what Whimsey said a while back about why Mel and Thoros had to meet and why it had nothing to do with LSH. He stated that Mel needed to see that is was possible to resurrect people and I most definitely agree. I have a feeling that their religion is going to become front and center pretty soon.

I made a post about this yesterday on reddit, i too subscribe to this theory.

I too hope for Sansa to bring some Stark vengeance in the show! By the way are you Lady Gwyn from Radio Westeros?

Still a lot questions are raised. Why the show bothered to introduce the BwB without further use? Why keep mentioning Cat throughout S4? I think it could go either way.

You really can’t seriously subscribe to a theory that is born from the word “revenge” being uttered to Sansa in a 5 second trailer clip right? Am I taking crazy pills?

Please for the love of god, expound on this theory because it’s insane if that’s what you’re hanging your hat on.

Also folks, David Bradley (Walder) has mentioned in an interview that D&D have told him that he’ll be back at some point down the road for the show so obviously the Frey’s will be dealt with to everyone’s satisfaction. It may just not be the way the books do it. Stop fretting about stuff that’s not happening exactly when you think it’s supposed to.

King Tommen: I’m more inclined to believe that the quick shot we see in the trailer of Sansa alone in a castle room with candles lit around while she’s naked in a bathtub and looking extremely anxious is leading to the controversial scene in question. And I don’t think it’s with LF.

“I’ll take another song, my little bird!”

Most of the audience probably has not worried about either Edmure or Blackfish, as neither are major characters. For those that do remeber, they have no reason to think that Edmure has left any dungeons. Blackfish is presumably on the lam somewhere.

Perhaps another sparring round of BF relevance between us, W? Oh, the BF shall have his day yet!

There is no need for LS in the show since the show features no Freys anymore.

troll#mode#on And who are Edmure and Blackfish? I dont remember those guys … do they have something to do with Gilly and her babe?

I’d certainly rather have Manderly and Davos’s own story arc than LSH.

For those asking “Where are Edmure and Blackfish? What about the BwB? Why were they introduced if not for LSH?” That’s absolutely silly. Nobody watching the show is asking those questions. And you wouldn’t either if you hadn’t read AFFC. You know why? Those were secondary characters serving a purpose to the plot at the moment —Edmure and Blackfish were a window into Cat’s family, and they were there to interact with Cat and Robb. That’s basically it. The BwB were there for Arya and the Hound. That’s the reason they existed, plot-wise. There are PLENTY other secondary characters still alive who haven’t come back, especially in the books (dozens and dozens), and nobody is asking “Where are they huuuh?” as if it’s some plot hole. It’s not a plot hole. There’s just not any main characters around them anymore so we ain’t seeing where they’re and what they’re doing. That’s it.

TL;DR: if you want to complain about the Riverlands stories not featuring in the show, do so on the basis of faithfulness to the books or the fact that you enjoy them and their characters —but please DON’T imply their absence is a plot hole of any kind.

The same reason Ned’s been mentioned almost every episode since he died, and he ain’t coming back as a zombie.

Yeah, people keep forgetting about that. There will be a Northern revenge. It’s just it will probably be more compressed than in the books, in which we’ve seen it coming for a whole book now.

Obviously there is a lot of demand for it from a significant portion of book fans!

Besides they totally had laid the foundation for it by introducing Thoros and Berric in Season 3!

Did they just changer their mind afterward?

Otherwise what was the purpose of showing the Brotherhood then?

Most interesting thing I’ve read in a while. Revenge is never sweet on GoT, it happens too late, or too little, or outside the knowledge of those who would rejoice in it, or by the “wrong” hand.

I stopped reading at book 4 (I’ve been spoilered though) for various reasons so I know about as much as Jon Snow, but I completely agree that any Northern revenge (on the show) will come out of left field and leave a bad taste.

As for who will be exacting this revenge, well, who do we already know from the North? Cos D&D are probably not introducing brand new characters. Unless the revenge thing happens in S6, and we are introduced to more Northerners throughout S5.

So, here is one probably stupid theory for your entertainment, please don’t scream at me if you disagree, it’s all for the fun of speculation:

The Stark children, are not in a position to do anything significant right now, at the start of S5.

Among the Stark men, we’ve been introduced to the Greatjon and a few others while Robb was fighting the Lannisters, but mostly we know the Roose-Boltons. My own vague and crazy theory is that they’ll want to capitalise on the impending chaos in the south (Lannister Vs Tyrell, the Sparrows, Dorne in rebellion) and grab more power. Their exactions as they do this may constitute that “revenge”. In fact I can imagine Roose-Bolton draping himself in the noble motive of avenging his former Lord to wreak havoc and serve his own ends. We can rely on them to make it as bloody and stomach-churning as it gets. And the black irony of having Ned and the North “avenged” by the psycho who sold them to the Lannisters would be very GoT…

Why show the Brotherhood without Banners in the first place?

… Maybe because they were interesting characters in their own right who had a great story with Arya and the Hound? If you only see the Brotherhood as a Chekov’s gun to LSH, then it is you who is underplaying those characters, not D&D. The point of showing the Brotherhood without Banners was… surprise, surprise:

I mean, what’s the point of showing pretty much

character, if characters are there only to foreshadow other events?

Guys I put forward the sansa lsh theory onto many sites months ago but I also stated that littlefinger is away in King’s landing at the end of the season for cerseis walk. My guess is something happens to sansa, littlefinger consoles her. She takes it into mind and takes vengeance on brienne and pod because it’s the closest she can get to lannisters.

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